More Reviews
REVIEWS Firefall Review
Repetitive gameplay makes this fall a little boring.

The Walking Dead: Season Two Review
At this point, you’re not coming back for the zombies. Let’s get down to business.
More Previews
PREVIEWS Final Fantasy Type-0 Preview
Sitting down with producers behind this fan-demanded Final Fantasy game helped to put the franchise in perspective before fans play the game on PS4 and Xbox One.
Release Dates
NEW RELEASES Madden NFL 15
Release date: Out Now

Destiny
Release date: 09/09/14

Ar Nosurge: Ode to an Unborn Star
Release date: 09/23/14

FIFA 15
Release date: 09/23/14


LATEST FEATURES A Comprehensive Guide to Dealing with Controversy in the Video Game Industry
Need help wading through the latest misogyny/homophobia/racism/corruption debate in the gaming industry? Paul Tamburro’s here to help!

inFamous: First Light Battle Arena Hints, Strategies, Tips [Stream Over]
Watch as I build out our feature of useful tactics for players in Sucker Punch's wave-based and arcade-awesome arena mode.

LEADERBOARD
Read More Member Blogs
FEATURED VOXPOP samsmith614 Since game design is a business, I decided to see what's really selling well for the PS4. I did this search a week ago, and at the time, out of the top 20 bestsellers on Amazon 10 had not even been released yet. By now some have been released. But others still have not. And yet others...

MEMBER BLOG

oblivion437 oblivion437's Blog
PROFILE
Average Blog Rating:
[ Back to All Posts ]
A Riposte to a Rebuttal to a Reply, or Something
Posted on Monday, April 16 2012 @ 12:14:14 Eastern

This is a continuation of an exchange in the comments to "Gamers Rebel Against Dirty Tactics as Capcom's BBB Rating Plummets" and is posted here due to comment-length restrictions.

"Oh please, around the entire internet[...]"

I didn't ask about the entire internet.  I asked about this place, Game Revolution.  Where had you seen such a thing here?  You concede you have not.  It's a good thing, too - it's a starting point of agreement for what's to follow.

"I got shat on for point out the fallacy of their website"

I'm sorry to hear that.  We're talking about a formal topic and how it relates to a passion people share.  I do wish people would be more civil.  Were I the one reeling from a 'you're a tool of Bioware/EA' attack, I would demand hard evidence of a conflict of interest, on the condition that failure to produce such in the wake of such an allegation ends in a permaban on the spot.  You'll watch the internet tough guys' penchant for libel disappear on the spot.

"Point is, it doesn't matter if EA/BioWare/Capcom/Square Enix do good or bad practices, because the BBB is not evidence of that, or at the very least credible. That is my point, and why I don't take them seriously. "

The BBB's credibility is not at issue in Stephens' statements.  She could work for George Lincoln Rockwell, Meir Kehane or the DMV for all I care and what she said still stands or falls on its own merits.

"And yeah, I always assume what they say is a lie, because it never comes true. Hell look at other developers out there like Molyneux, Todd Howard, Gabe Newell, David Jaffe; they have been caught in "lies" time and again, but get off scott free."

Here is where you make the mistake I tried to point out by committing the same invalid extension of one of your prior statements in the exact same way you extended Stephens'.  What you have identified is a problem.  The right to freedom of speech ends where fraud/threat or incitement to same begin.  The problem is not whether you personally do or do not trust them.  The problem is whether a consumer can or cannot trust game makers.  If putting blatant lies about the contents of your product on the packaging (this is where your extension of Stephens' argument became invalid, that is what she talked about, not keynote speeches, not interviews, not on-the-record informal conversations with journalists) is accepted industry practice then the industry, and its accepted practices, need to change.  Objective definitions of false advertising, fraud, or abuse of consumers' rights need not change to suit it.  They're doing something wrong. If EA is the first to get slapped while others also deserve it, even if EA is the only one to get slapped when others are far more deserving, they still deserve it.

"So you are not abusing any argument, but rather making a fool out of yourself due to naivety."

Yes I did abuse your argument.  I abused it in the formal sense.  I was strawmanning you.  I was pretending that you would or were knowingly and willfully aiding and abetting outright fraud on a multi-billion dollar scale.  I never thought you actually did, believed, or intended any such thing.  One could not even uncharitably read that into your statements.  Likewise one could not even uncharitably read your conclusions about false advertising on Skyrim's blurbs from Stephens' argument.  Which was my entire point.  But even if those were a valid implication of her argument, that doesn't invalidate it.  'I don't like the conclusion' is not any more a refutation of an argument than 'all those other guys are doing it too' is an affirmative defense.

"It's advertising and promotion, of course it has a slant to it. It's why it needs to be taken with a grain of salt."

Which is why advertising is (normally) filled with weasel words a PR person can later hedge and lawyers can point to in order to protect their clients from false advertising and fraud lawsuits.  The problem is the use of the word 'completely'.  It is an absolute statement for which no significant qualifications are possible.  There are two reasonable interpretations of the indirect meaning of the word in context and neither one could possibly describe any of the Mass Effect games (or any game at all, for that matter) and it's really simple - EA hoisted themselves (and by extension, Bioware) by their own petard.  If you have a physical copy of Skyrim handy, read the blurb.  There's lots of weasel language.  If you tried to sue them they could bog your argument down in interpretive ranges for the words you would hope to single out.  It might, by some estimates, be very close to the line where hype ends and lying begins.  No one could seriously argue it is on the far side of that line.
comments powered by Disqus

 
More On GameRevolution