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Are graphics comparisons even relevant anymore?
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used44



Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 20390

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, whatever.

The style helps, but the game is so pretty on its own. Everybody takes HD visuals for granted.
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madster111
The Original Pie Lover


Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ivory_Soul wrote:
Very true. Minecraft is downright ugly, that's why there are graphic enhancement mods. I have seen some screenshots of those and THAT looks gorgeous.

I run the shaders mod with 256x256 textures, and it still looks quite similar to ass. But that's fine, because minecraft isn't about graphics in the same way that BF3 is about graphics.
Minecraft doesn't let graphics get in the way of the gameplay, while BF3's lighting engine makes it damn near impossible to do that sniper mission when the graphics are turned up.

BF3 with that colour mod and maxxed out graphics at 1920x1080 is simply insane and a lot of games look like ass compared to it, including Crysis 1+2 and Metro 2033. It's at the point where graphics can't really get 'better'. Even with more powerful hardware, graphics are at levels where you have to start comparing aspects of them instead of just in general. Like, 1 game has better lighting while the other better textures and detail.

Hopefully for the durango/ps4 generation we'll see Crysis 3 come out with the best graphics that can be made and developers can get back onto making GOOD games with stories that last longer than 6hrs.
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danielrbischoff



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ivory_Soul wrote:
Longo_2_guns wrote:
used44 wrote:
Minecraft is gorgeous in its special way though.

I wouldn't call it gorgeous. It's got its own style, but still.


Very true. Minecraft is downright ugly, that's why there are graphic enhancement mods. I have seen some screenshots of those and THAT looks gorgeous.


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Delorean88
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Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="madster111"]
Ivory_Soul wrote:
It's at the point where graphics can't really get 'better'. Even with more powerful hardware, graphics are at levels where you have to start comparing aspects of them instead of just in general. Like, 1 game has better lighting while the other better textures and detail.


Honestly that's how I feel about graphics right now. At least when there was the PS1 to PS2 era you could see where graphics could improve and same with PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 but now I feel like graphics could improve but really not by much. Sure it's possible (like star wars 1313) but I think graphic improvement now will exist in the sense of in game graphics that look like cinematic graphics. Majority of games now look beautiful to me even on consoles. BF3 on xbox 360 is a beautiful game to me, sure PC games are the king of graphics but console graphics aren't ugly. Besides as mature gamers I feel we can all agree that if the gameplay is good enough you could give two sh*ts about how the game looks. Minecraft being an example of that, hell Half Life 2 may be dated visually but I could care less cause that game is so damn fun.

Graphics comparisons are pointless because at least I assume PC will always win and PS3 is a bit sharper than 360, not by a whole lot but the difference is noticeable if you look. I used to care about graphics then i hit puberty and matured. Games should be pretty because of the tech we have but I feel like if a developer sacrifices beauty to better the gameplay and the options of the world than it's "A okay"
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cyberjim2000
Forum Bum


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danielrbischoff wrote:
Ivory_Soul wrote:
Longo_2_guns wrote:
used44 wrote:
Minecraft is gorgeous in its special way though.

I wouldn't call it gorgeous. It's got its own style, but still.


Very true. Minecraft is downright ugly, that's why there are graphic enhancement mods. I have seen some screenshots of those and THAT looks gorgeous.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad8IJGkFxuw&feature=relmfu

On-Topic: Does it really matter at the end which console is better for whatever game you're playing? I mean, we're not talking about Mega Man for the DOS vs. Mega Man on the NES. It's the same game no matter what...





... unless you have it on the PC... with mods.
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LinksOcarina
The Anti-Fanboy


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

used44 wrote:
LinksOcarina wrote:
So I propose that reviewers stop talking about graphics and talk about aesthetics instead.

The difference is major, because soon we will be judging games not based on how realistic they look, but how the design of the world is in-game, and if it clashes with other design choices.


Aren't we already doing that? All the time? Very few developers are even going for realism in visuals. And all the praise already goes to games with interesting and cohesive aesthetics.


Sometimes yes, but sometimes its also unwarranted. Fable comes to mind as an example, honestly the world is bland in its aesthetics because its a mish-mosh of graphical styles. Dragon's Dogma was also an example if you ask me, it went for the hyper-realism but had a anime-flair to it, which is something that Capcom has a habit of doing.

It is more complex than just pointing to something new and saying it looks amazing. Dishonored as a recent case has great set-pieces, but the people look like cartoon characters. It fits in this case because the game is a bit off-kilter as it stands, but if it was bland like Fable, it would be out of place overall. And try to put such characters in another game like Thief of Hitman...the difference would be noticable then as well.
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Wes



Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only matters if you're a fanboy.

Also graphics can always improve, you just have to see it to believe it. Remember the Killzone 3 video that showed us what the PS3 was capable of? Remember fanboys saying how that was impossible? Today games look just as good, if not better, while in-game.

Graphics in video games can always improve because CGI movies will always look better.
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Ivory_Soul



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes wrote:
It only matters if you're a fanboy.

Also graphics can always improve, you just have to see it to believe it. Remember the Killzone 3 video that showed us what the PS3 was capable of? Remember fanboys saying how that was impossible? Today games look just as good, if not better, while in-game.

Graphics in video games can always improve because CGI movies will always look better.


I do remember that, but I also remember staring at the horrible low-resolution textures and thinking, "I think the PS3 has finally reached its limit".
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WickedLiquid
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God forbid my resolution textures aren't the exact same as the other versions.
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Bretimus_v2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes, I'm just happy when they put time into making the game...ummm, fun? Honestly, graphics are nice and all but I feel that "pushing the graphics edge" amongst other things is one of the main reason half of the industry is upside-down. Some of the best games are just fun, with or without, ground-breaking graphics for their time.
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Ivory_Soul



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bretimus_v2 wrote:
Sometimes, I'm just happy when they put time into making the game...ummm, fun? Honestly, graphics are nice and all but I feel that "pushing the graphics edge" amongst other things is one of the main reason half of the industry is upside-down. Some of the best games are just fun, with or without, ground-breaking graphics for their time.


A bit over exaggerated, but graphics aren't everything. Some games that's the point like McPixel, Super Meat Boy, Retro City Rampage. But here's the key thing that people miss, the graphics are still GOOD (well McPixel looks like crap no matter how you slice it) If you are going to make a game use the art style you're going to focus on and make it look GOOD no matter if you use DirectX 11 graphics or pixel art. I don't care about the fidelity of graphics as long as they look good.
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madster111
The Original Pie Lover


Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WickedLiquid wrote:
God forbid my resolution textures aren't the exact same as the other versions.

Go look at the difference between a modified copy of Skyrim to the standard one to understand why textures are so important.
Console/Vanilla skyrim looks bland, modified skyrim looks stunning.

With only some high resolution textures and a simple shader mod (doesn't actually change any files), the game looks twice as good.
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Sourdeez
Does it use DX12?!?


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bethesda also released hd texture dlc for the pc. For free
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madster111
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sourdeez wrote:
Bethesda also released hd texture dlc for the pc. For free

Yeah but even then the 2K textures look better a lot of the time.

Grab the official HD textures and then download a bunch of the texture mods, static mesh improvements and realistic lighting and Skyrim seriously looks twice as good.
Combine the new looks with skyrim already being a good game and it becomes great, especially the lighting mod which makes caves and the night darker, which i personally finds improves gameplay because now your hiding spot doesn't look incredibly obvious to the blind enemies and because the night eye/light spells actually do something.

Needed a fresh install anyway, so:
EG:

vs

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Ivory_Soul



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madster111 wrote:
Sourdeez wrote:
Bethesda also released hd texture dlc for the pc. For free

Yeah but even then the 2K textures look better a lot of the time.

Grab the official HD textures and then download a bunch of the texture mods, static mesh improvements and realistic lighting and Skyrim seriously looks twice as good.
Combine the new looks with skyrim already being a good game and it becomes great, especially the lighting mod which makes caves and the night darker, which i personally finds improves gameplay because now your hiding spot doesn't look incredibly obvious to the blind enemies and because the night eye/light spells actually do something.

Needed a fresh install anyway, so:
EG:

vs


I use Skyrim as the perfect example for console gamers to grasp why textures and other elements are so important. Even the vanilla character models look like crap. Get the CBBE body model for females, new body texture, plus all the stuff madster111 said and Skyrim looks like a whole new game. The draw distances go farther, you can even have more things on screen like self-shadowing trees, it all makes a difference in the end.
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madster111
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got everything working properly, couple more texture mods:








Yeah, i'm not sure the 360/PS3/WiiU could do that - and the graphics aren't even maxxed. No 2K textures because my connection is unstable and only 2xAA because smoothness>shiny.
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Ivory_Soul



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go ahead and post a few shots as well. I'm using a shader injector that adds a bleak hue to everything. I also have self-shadowing trees enabled, and the 2K texture mod which is twice the resolution of the free DLC textures. I also have depth of field enabled, FXAA, and anti-aliasing through Catalyst Control Center because Skyrim's AA sucks and causes massive slow down. I have Ambient Occlusion disabled because it doesn't do much and just drops the FPS by about 20. I also disabled Bloom because it makes everything too bright.




Darker nights mod. Can't really see anything unless you have a torch. Very realistic


The character is 100% modded. The body mesh, texture, hair, makeup, clothing, everything. The vanilla characters look freaking ugly. I even added the better male bodies as well.


Notice how the dungeon looks more tan/brown and kind of bleak? Shader injector. It's as easy as dropping a .ini file into your Skyrim directory.


Also the dark nights mod. Notice the depth of field


I wanted to get better locales but was too lazy. Also, sorry for the image sizes, I'm tired and Imageshack wasn't displaying my images. Had to use TinyPic.
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Green_Lantern
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad texture packs don't make Skyrim a better game...
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madster111
The Original Pie Lover


Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green_Lantern wrote:
Too bad texture packs don't make Skyrim a better game...

Disagree.

Better graphics increases realism which increases immersion.
Using shader mods is the difference between sneaking at night and going 'damn' when somebody suddenly rounds the corner and 'ARGHHH' when you look slightly to your right and notice some legs.

Also, Ivory? I-S? ...Ivory.
How big is your skyrim install with your mods? Because without the 2K textures mine's coming in at just under 7.5gb, with a 1.4gb texture folder.
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Last edited by madster111 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sourdeez
Does it use DX12?!?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



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