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Kerbal Space Program
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started using the Kethane mod pack last night and those fuel lines look like live savers. I had my satellite mapping the Mun while I was at work today, so I have a nearly complete Mun Kethane deposit map.
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FrozenBacon
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Space program update:

Since I have a GPS network to route signals from the mun now, I reorganized my comm structure to only use one satellite. Keeping a satellite in front of the mun is a lot harder than you think! I cannot get the velocity to match the mun exactly so I have to change its orbit every so often to ensure that the mun doesn't capture it.


Speaking of GPS, check out the massive launch vehicle I used to deliver all 24 satellites to the mun at once. I don't think this would be possible without a supercomputer or mechjeb. I had <10fps until I started unloading the satellites when I got to the mun.


Tested out trailers using stock parts



Created a truck that can jump. Mainly for shits and giggles, but may be useful on the mun if I never need to go down or up a steep incline.


Recreated my mobile mun base using mostly stock parts. The part on the far right is my power plant, which has 32 RTGs inside of it. Overkill for the base itself, but those RTGs are needed for the kethane miners the base will be attached to.


Test out deadly re-entry (heat damage). Of course making a vehicle that went into orbit was boring so I set up an apollo style mun landing and tested re-entry on the return trip. I don't have any images of the return, but those guys did make it back safely. The heatshield wasn't even necessary because I had plenty of fuel to slow their descent down. Was one of the most intense landings of my KSP life, though. The following picture was taken after I docked the lander to the orbiting vessel.


This is what my flight control screen looks like right now. So many damn GPS satellites that I cannot even use it. The haystack mod is a necessity for me right now.

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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Punted two segments of a huge ship I started building after watching 2001 into orbit last night. Got the engines bolted to the keel, but I may have to redesign the drive system. 6 nuclear engines may be too puny to move this much mass around. Will add pics when I get home tonight.



First lift attempt. Have a bunch of useless mass in the body plates. Building 2 versions, one that looks cool, and another stripped to essentials.



Final lift. Was super stable and surprisingly responsive, with little roll.



Ditching the boosters. Kept only my orbital maneuver engine at this point.



Engines Going up.



Heavy Lift technique I've dubbed "All of the mainsails."



Approaching for dock



Success! Now just have to design a command section and orbit/dock it.
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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a plugin that allows multiplayer... kinda. Its more like a chat that allows you to see the orbits of anyone else that is connected. Still it is really cool. You can share ships and screenshots. I set up a server for testing earlier tonight and it is pretty damn smooth despite the fact that I am hosting it on my home computer on a wi-fi connection. If there are enough people on GR that are interested in the game I'll set up a GR server as well. I do have a VPS that used to be a minecraft server, but the hosting company is being homo so I can't use it right now.

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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumping this topic because I want more people to get interested in the game. So... more screenshots!

I havent been playing much over the past week but I had some free time today so I ended up doing a KSP maraton. This is what I ended up creating:

A mun rover for my mun base. My cargo delivery system for my mun base creates a lot of debris, so the rover It has a robotic arm that can pick up debris and deposit it into its cargo bay. Didn't take any screenshots of me testing the cargo arm, but here is one of my cargo plane about to eat it up.


Speaking of my cargo plane, it reaches insane speeds in the atmosphere. For reference, Mach 5 is about 3,500 mph, and the plane was still accelerating. I had deadly re-entry mod installed and it kept blowing up before I reached max speed. I still don't know the max speed of this thing because I am too impatient to wait for it to max out.


Too impatient for single stage to orbit (SSTO) spaceplanes, in fact. So... I attached a construction yard to my space station! Its the roundy thing with all the solar panels. The orbital construction mod requires me to load the construction yard with at least 100 spare parts, which totals up to over 25 tons. That is a lot to lift, and something to do for another day. This screenshot was taken after I docked the construction yard and about to dock the space tug so it can refuel for a landing.


I also made a vertically launchedSSTO vehicle that is designed to ferry kerbals from kerbin to the space station.


The thing has a TWR ratio of 1.01 at launch, meaning it just barely gets off the ground... but it does get into space eventually. Only has enough fuel to get into orbit and make a few maneuvers, though. It has to refuel with my space station if it is to go any further. I always forget to put lights on my stuff so I often wait till dawn before I start docking.


Buy the game already. Or pirate it, I don't care. This game is too awesome to not play.


Last edited by FrozenBacon on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NickKmet
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfortunately I've just been too busy to really get into this. But I want to! Next week my school load lightens up quite a bit.
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madster111
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Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing around with spaceplanes almost exclusively lately. I'm still trying to build a SSTO plane that's able to lift a small to medium sized satellite into near kerbin orbit and return and land on the runway, but so far my attempts are meeting with little success.

I can get a plane up into an almost orbit, and burn a bunch of the satellites fuel to get it into a working orbit, but the weight shift combined with the huge speeds and little air mean 9/10 i go into a flat spin upon re-entry and the few times i don't, i don't have the patience to do the ultra slow and gentle turns required to get the plane set up for the runway.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been busy the past few days and also went crazy with my command module design.

GENTLEMEN (and ladies where applicable) BEHOLD!!

Instead of a modest command module I decided to stick with the theme and go godawful huge.


Comm module in orbit:


Tug on the way for command module installation


RCS was nowhere NEAR balanced and I nearly gave up multiple times.



SUCCESS! Much rejoicing ensued. May rip it off eventually and go more modest as it makes the ship extremely slooooooooooow to pitch and yaw. With the panels retracted it rolls like a champ. (and of course it's night, with no lights... grrr...)


Installed mini docking ports in pairs along the structure of the command module to provide installation points for disposable supply packs carrying fuel and RCS.


And we're installed. Just need to fly up two more.


Construction so far with assembly tug docked.


In all this has kicked my i7 2600K in the sweet spot. Down to 21fps so far. Resource packs haven't affected it more than an fps or two, so we'll see where she lies when done. I think when I drop all the extraneous plates and girder segments on the naked version I'll have something practical, but this is mainly just to look cool, and get some awesome aerobraking screenshots with.

No mods on this ship, no debug cheats so far. If I hadn't remembered I had fuel left in the tank I used to circularize the resource pack I would have had to cheat fuel to get it to the ship. Long story short I was watching the map and overheated my tug's circularization engine with nearly a full tank, and had to stabilize orbit with the Poodle the tug uses for main propulsion. Bright side: no extra orbital debris from the tug launch! All in all I'm rather happy with how it turned out.
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madster111
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Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mobius_Sean wrote:
In all this has kicked my i7 2600K in the sweet spot. Down to 21fps so far. Resource packs haven't affected it more than an fps or two, so we'll see where she lies when done.

Yeah, KSP has a habit of making hardware seem weak. Been thinking about going up to 4.8 from 4.5ghz to squeeze a few FPS more, but i'm not sure if it'd really help that much.
Looks great man. And 20FPS isn't that bad for a huge ship - streamlining it should get you up at 25-30 and make it smooth enough.

Gave up on a stock part heavy lifting 'space' plane, so behold:

THE TURTLE






Because she's already so heavy, she can take off with huge weights - forget medium satellites, i've been toying with taking up manned lunar landers on it. Once up in the air, you get to fly it like an SR-71 because anything over +15 and -10 means it WILL fail.



Because of this, and because it's so slow, it takes a LONG time to get up above 20km, But once you're up to some real speeds you can get it up high enough to launch your secondary vehicle
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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome stuff, guys. I tried that B9 aerospace pack and it is freaking awesome. The wings I created using those parts were rock solid and experienced no wobble at all. The stock wings are a complete mess that don't even like to align with each other. The cockpits are great as well.

Not much from me. I did manage to get my cargo ship to land on the mun last night, though. Drunk too! It was a miracle that it landed in one piece, actually.



Of course I didn't think shit through and ended up with this stupid situation:



I don't even know how this happened but the front ended up getting stuck like this.



No one went mun roving that day.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've shelved the monster ship for now. I went for its maiden flight and it took nearly half its fuel in a 10 minute burn and all of my RCS just to get an intercept (that's all of 30k units of RCS fuel for ya). Looks like the slight deflection of the engine pods keeps tossing the nose off the nav point. Will redesign, but after DLing B9 Aerospace and Damned Robotics, I wanna play with those some more.

Sat down and flew the Strugatsky cargo plane last night just to see how it flew and ended up almost circumnavigating Kerbin with it, I was having such a good time (read: sleep depravation, Guinness and Kerbal ADD...). Going to try and set up a Mun colony for Kethane operations, so when I finally get the kinks worked out of my big ship I'll have the fuel infrastructure to keep it supported already in place.
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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mobius_Sean wrote:
Looks like the slight deflection of the engine pods keeps tossing the nose off the nav point.


Yea that is what sucks with engines that aren't at the back of the ship. You can point them outwards, but that fucks with their efficiency.

I tried out the B9 mod this weekend and managed to make a SSTO by accident. I'm tired of cluttering the thread with my images so clicky for an image. It uses all of its fuel to get into orbit, though.

I also played around a bit with the pizza aerospace mod. I haven't tested the mod much but I really like the ramjet engines and intakes that come with it. The thrust of all jet engines are really nerfed, but the ramjet engines have a thrust exponential to your speed. You have to be going around mach 1.1-1.5 for them to kick in but when they do, they accelerate you stupid fast.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrozenBacon wrote:
I also played around a bit with the pizza aerospace mod. I haven't tested the mod much but I really like the ramjet engines and intakes that come with it. The thrust of all jet engines are really nerfed, but the ramjet engines have a thrust exponential to your speed. You have to be going around mach 1.1-1.5 for them to kick in but when they do, they accelerate you stupid fast.


Sounds like flying the SR-71. I have the Alphasim Blackbird for FSX and one of the recommendations is "see if you can find a real Blackbird flight manual."

If you just firewall the throttles and point at the sky you'll never hit Mach one. Level out, hit M1.1 then angle up 10 degrees and you can't NOT hit Mach 3. They had to cut out the intake spike modeling for FSX but in the FS9 and real birds pilots had to manipulate the spikes to disturb airflow just to get the thing slowed down. Just cutting fuel would flame them out and cause a catastrophic spin, and easing off the throttles would lean it out and cause them to overheat.

May have to give that mod a whirl.
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madster111
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, yes. The Alphasim SR-71 on FSX. Tried that many a time until i figured it out. You have to treat it like a scramjet, because that's essentially what it is. The Pizza Aero mod must go for the realistic approach - does it also drop fuel usage at higher speeds like it should?

That's what Blackbirds do. They're more fuel efficient at higher speeds, so when they needed more range pilots would push the throttles up, which must've been a damn weird experience. Would love a KSP that emulates that, because it pisses me off how much fuel my high speed jets use. Means that i either go up with a small tank and run out of fuel 1/2 through my top speed run, or i go up with a big tank and have to sit at 60,000ft waiting for the fuel to run down a bit so i can get up to the altitudes i need.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fuel flow rates don't change so much as you're putting so much more ground behind you at Mach 3 the miles per gallon rating shoots into ludicrous. At subsonic if I leave Edwards AFB at 50% throttle I can make Kansas City before refueling in about 3 hours. (Time acceleration and autopilot ofc) Mach 3 at 85,000 feet on full burner I can be looking for a refuel point in Hawaii in about 2. Like Kerbal my main problem once the tanks start to empty is managing center of gravity. I still don't know of the fuel drains noes to tail or top to bottom she. You get the tanks on their sides.
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madster111
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the tanks 'drain' so much as they simply get lighter progressively as they go through fuel.
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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea the fuel tanks just get lighter over time, but they drain front to back, which can shift your center of weight back pretty quickly. I think this method is good enough for this game because without a mechanism to keep the fuel level, it will be impossible to transfer the fuel to the engines while in space. Of course it isn't 100% accurate, but it is good enough. Anyway, here is a setup I figured out that allows me to drain evenly from all fuel tanks while keeping them in line.



Each fuel section is separated by one of those structural panels and held together with struts (two on the bottom and two on the top). However, I just found about about TAC fuel balancer today and now use that instead.

As for what was said about fuel efficiency, pizza does fix that by causing jet engines to use a less fuel. The fuel carried in fuel tanks is also proportionate with the volume of the fuel tank so you are able to carry a lot more fuel now. Of course, this makes the fuel tanks heavier which means you need more lift to get them off the ground. I haven't tested it myself, but according to the documentation, you should be able to fly for like 20 hours with the right configuration. I dunno how I feel about this but the fuel amounts in this game are pretty large to begin with.

Also the B9 cockpits are really nice but holy shit, you have like no visibility with them. It would be nice to have at least one cockpit with high visibility in this pack.

EDIT: Oh yea, I also made my cargo plane into a SSTO(clicky for an image). This SSTO weighed in around 100 tons, which includes the cargo inside. I think I figured out the math involved to get a SSTO into orbit (it is just like rockets, except that you are starting at a higher initial speed, which means less delta/v required if you are able to turn that horizontal velocity into orbital velocity). I plan on making a java app that is capable of calculating the delta/v requirements to get a spaceplane into orbit once I get the time. I'll also try to include the amount of RCS required to turn the aircraft in space because I am finding it really freaking hard to dock with these large SSTOs.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started setting up my Mun Kethane colony today. Going to give imgur a shot out of consideration for the thread. I basically finished sending out my mining and fuel hauler trucks. I could have gone minimalist, but really wanted something reminiscent of the huge Komatsu quarry trucks I see around here every once in a while.

http://imgur.com/a/5aHG4

1st image was a suborbital flight after a launcher failure. Everything looks cooler on fire.

Hit the ground too hard setting down the fuel hauler and broke some wheels. Kerbal EVA to the rescue! Fixed 'em up and made the 30km drive to meet the drilling rig. It was a heavy bastard and didn't want to risk wrecking my reusable skycrane or it hopping over. Need to set up an RCS tanker and my refineries and the base will be good to go.
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FrozenBacon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here is the equation I came up with for delta-v requirements of spaceplanes.



Variables:

p = your pitch as you climb into orbit (keep in mind as you try to raise your AP. I figured it would be a waste of time trying to calculate the reverse gravity turn so I just enter a value of 45 here)
v = your velocity when you begin your pitch up into orbit
o = orbital velocity (for 75km it is 2286.966 m/s)

Wolfram alpha loves to substitute in radians whenever it feels like it so it is better if you do it by hand. With my test plane I used a value of 45 for the pitch, 1000 m/s for my intitial velocity and 2286.966 m/s for my orbital velocity. Equation told me I needed about 1.8km/s of delta-v to reach orbit. I ended up spending about 2km/s but that is because the equation doesn't account for the drag encountered during the climb (that high up it is fairly low anyway. Its going to make a difference if you start your climb lower than 10km, though), or gravity, but it is accurate enough. Works for my cargo plane as well.
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Mobius_Sean



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't seem to find it but if I recall the small asas module is bugged, correct? Started using it for the first time in a long time (been flying huge things so Large ASAS is what I've been using with no problems) it's been forever since I had the wiggle bug where the ship translates a few dozen feet before changing heading, and it has coincided with me using the small ASAS unit again. It's been driving me up the wall tonight.
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