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used44



Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 20933

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LinksOcarina wrote:
used44 wrote:
LinksOcarina wrote:
I have been to the other side.


You've worked in video game development?


Nope!


Then shut up.

Games criticism isn't "the other side." It is a part of the consumer experience, not above it. Especially the stuff from a small blog or website.

I'm pleased with your career advancements but it doesn't automatically allow you to be a pretentious dick about something that everyone here loves.
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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3720

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...nor is criticism a method of preventing you to have fun either. It's just a reminder that what you love isn't perfect. You can love a product just as much as criticize its flaws. Calm your panties, used! Mean old link is not going to take your Last of Us away from you.

Also, Longo needs to look up the difference between Analogy and algebra.

1X +2X = 3
1 + 2 = 3
Therefore X=0

In this sense,
Longo_2_guns wrote:
Video game journalism is to journalism what TMZ is to journalism

Journalism = X = 0
Therefore, instead of saying video game journalism is being mocked for simplifying the news for the masses just like TMZ does with celebrities, you are just saying Video games journalism is TMZ... as in TMZ now reports video games.
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Longo_2_guns
Ruler of the Queen's Navy


Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

used44 wrote:

I'm pleased with your career advancements but it doesn't automatically allow you to be a pretentious dick about something that everyone here loves.

Yeah, who are you, me?
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used44



Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 20933

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Lien is haphazardly defending you, you know you've made a huge mistake.
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Icepick
Professional Pocketpool Player


Joined: 14 Dec 2002
Posts: 11250

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to weigh in this because A) I'm fucking rip drunk and B) reading the last 15 replies only, I feel I know everything there is to in this thread

firstly - Longo you're an asshole, it's journalism, maybe not thought provoking or anything, but it counts

secondly - links, being a "journalist" is nice and all, but explain the difference between you and I, we both bitch about things and hate on things, and only look for flaws in products and go to absurd lengths to not enjoy things, the difference is you paid to get a degree in that skill. You hate things as an identity, stop it or you'll end up a cynical bastard like I am

thirdly, used your a good guy, don't change, or do, I'm not your mother

fourthly, you can hate it all you want, it's really hard to argue that GTA V isn't the best game by pretty much any definition of the word. On a tech level it's amazing, the amount of care thrown into the environment and dialogue are incredible, the level of freedom, and the immersion you experience is above pretty much everything else, and games that come close to it's heights in only one of those categories are praised as a fantastic game

you may not care for the jokes, and satire may not be something you enjoy, but just because you're a stuck up cunt, that doesn't stop a game from being good, and your opinion really does mean shit. "I didn't enjoy it, therefore the millions who did are morons" or hating on it not to be part of the crowd, or whatever bullshit you kids do now adays

I had a fifth point about robots, and nostalgia, and something about time travel but I'm rambling and I've lost my pants
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Bretimus_v2
The Japazillian Dynasty


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is everything I needed to read right now. You sir have made my evening enjoyable. This all reminds me of Prof Frink on the episode the PTA disbands. No you can't play it. You won't enjoy it on as many levels as I do.
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danielrbischoff



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longo_2_guns wrote:
No offense, Dan.

What we do is not journalism. We're enthusiast press and we're almost always way too fucking enthusiastic.
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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like my one of my favorite college teacher once told us on the first day of class "The problem is not that everyone is bias, it's just no one would admit it".
I prefer to follow a gaming site that isn't afraid to be enthusiastic about franchises then one that claims "neutral grounds" and just angers everyone unknowingly.

That's one of the reason i have been following GR for the past decades (beside the fact they are local). Glad to know Dan isn't afraid to admit it. If i just wanted video game news, i'd follow Gamepolitics or Gamasutra instead.
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LinksOcarina
The Anti-Fanboy


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 11656

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

used44 wrote:
LinksOcarina wrote:
used44 wrote:
LinksOcarina wrote:
I have been to the other side.


You've worked in video game development?


Nope!


Then shut up.

Games criticism isn't "the other side." It is a part of the consumer experience, not above it. Especially the stuff from a small blog or website.

I'm pleased with your career advancements but it doesn't automatically allow you to be a pretentious dick about something that everyone here loves.


I don't care about what you all love, really. Just like I don't care if you mock what I like. Personal taste is personal taste in the end, and if pointing out that the game is overrated makes me a pretentious dick, I wear the badge with honor then. You don't have to listen to me, you know.

And gaming criticism, journalism, or whatever you want to call it should be above the consumer experience. It is the job of the press to help consumers, after all. Not to lie to them, to be impartial and to report the news, to give good criticism and layers into a review. Most critics don't do that I have noticed, its a pet peeve of mine. You can have fun and enjoy your work all you want, but you need to take it seriously if you ask me.

Icepick wrote:


secondly - links, being a "journalist" is nice and all, but explain the difference between you and I, we both bitch about things and hate on things, and only look for flaws in products and go to absurd lengths to not enjoy things, the difference is you paid to get a degree in that skill. You hate things as an identity, stop it or you'll end up a cynical bastard like I am


Well, the difference is I did it on a daily basis with people that trusted what I said. I was humbled by that when I was on the site, that people kept emailing me about what they liked and hated in my work. I loved fostering debates and discussions with people because it helped to get other points of view out, even if I disagreed with them. It was far from 'not enjoying things' either. Just because a game has problems, doesn't mean its good. Look as Mass Effect 3 as a prime example of a game I liked a lot, flaws and all.

All without getting a degree in that skill too. So I am a carpetbagger on top of things. Go me.
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Green_Lantern
Spacecataz


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LinksOcarina wrote:
Fuck The Last of Us.



Is a little different than "pointing out that the game is overrated"

Actually, a lot different.
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LinksOcarina
The Anti-Fanboy


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 11656

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short version then.

Combat and sequencing in The Last of Us is very weak. It plays like a less pretentious version of Metal Gear Solid 4 in that respect, the best moments and scenes are not sequences we play, but watch, with one exception being any time you control Ellie and not running from infected folks.

It is also far from an ambitious game as many make it out to be. It follows a typical drama plot, simple story, conflict and resolution. It's well told, which is why it's so well liked, I agree to that part. But a well told story can only carry a game so far. Overall, it makes a better film than a game honestly.
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danielrbischoff



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 8908

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LinksOcarina wrote:
a less pretentious version of Metal Gear Solid

Not possible. Everything you say is wrong, forever.
LinksOcarina wrote:
the best moments and scenes are not sequences we play, but watch

The best sequence in the entire game, the hospital, is entirely playable from start to effectively finish. I don't see how carrying Ellie out of the hospital would have been better playable. There's also the sniper sequence, and more.
LinksOcarina wrote:
It follows a typical drama plot, simple story, conflict and resolution.

Name a game you love that doesn't have a so-called typical drama plot, simple story, conflict, and resolution. Everything has to end, you basically described the building blocks of narrative itself, but The Last of Us has many smaller dramas playing out in the setting of a much larger one, and how micro level drama eventually overcomes the macro level drama deserves a lot more credit than you're giving it.

But no one cares anyway because GTA V won!

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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The inner fanboy persona of Dan is showing now. Watch as the majestic fanboyism takes offense to simple words and try to not convince his pray of his views but rather over exaggerate his stance to scare away his opposition. A typical defense mechanism... Fascinating...

And darn it link! That's why you hate the last of us? "Typical drama plot"? What is this... The guy who laughed at the Mona Lisa for saying there's loads of painting of smiling women? For me where the Last of us fails in ISN'T the story line or the structure but how they are presented. What i mean by that is that there is a clear difference between the gameplay and the cutscenes. When you play the parts fighting against the infected/soldiers, you aren't playing the same people you see in the cutscenes (both cinematic and the walking actionless talking scenes). You have either a couple of people who battles horde of enemies without a flinch of their parts in their efforts but as soon as the combat sequence ends, you are now a bunch of drama actors trying to win the oscars. There is a horrible divide between these two parts (absence of danger, unskippable chatting, exposure of character backstory, etc..) that no matter how you feel about this game, it gives you some sort of... eeck feeling when your immersion in the gameplay is ruined by the immersion in the cutscene... and vice versa. Watch a let's play of this game, you'll get this same feeling as playing the game yourself, and that's bad by the way!

While we are at it, well told stories do carry out through time, this isn't limited to just video games by the way. But it totally isn't in the way that Daniel described the ending. One of the problem with video games story telling surviving the test of time, in comparison to say... theater works and opera, is the lack of innovation to separate it with the other games of that era. So a game's story like Zelda 64 has a more impact in video game history then... oh i don't know... say Gears of war 2. The only way for the latter to be recognized will be when people will forget the other cover clones games of that past decade. The last of us' conclusion isn't something new and i have played games with a much better ending sequence then that. But it is still memorable nonetheless.

Notice that all i said about TLOU also happens in the Uncharted series, cause that's a flaw in Naughtydogs recent games i thought they would remove in the Last of us but instead, they added in more... and i HATE them for doing this. Emotion filled games or not, i am still felling being pulled around in a roller coaster ride during the cutscenes. In the gameplay segment? I hardly feel the same emotions unless it turns into a quicktime event. I am more concern in finding a brick rather the know what Ellie is feeling during the fight sequences. ICO did a better job at that (despite its many flaws). And that's one of the reason that, while i do agree the game is the game of the year, it won't be the best game of the decade, sorry gang.
Again, do realize that even though the Last of us have these flaws, it doesn't make it a game unworthy of praise. It just means it's not perfect. No citizen Kane here, move along!

used44 wrote:
If Lien is haphazardly defending you, you know you've made a huge mistake.

And i love you too, Used. I shall now defend you till the end of time.
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WickedLiquid
In Limbo


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LinksOcarina wrote:
The Last of Us is very weak.


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Longo_2_guns
Ruler of the Queen's Navy


Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a lot of opinions about The Last of Us. But mostly, if the Last of Us is so good then why isn't it GotY?





I dedicate this post to Urban.
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Master_Craig
i liek to draw pictures


Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved The Last of Us for many reasons. It's plot was definitely well told and I was very entertained and intrigued by it. The overall presentation being the graphics, environments, voice acting, animations and the music were outstanding for video games of today, at least to me it was. A lot of care and detail was poured into that game.

I enjoyed the stealth segments and I liked the combat system. The only thing that really bothered me about The Last of Us was pushing wheelie bins and using them as climbing obstacles. Oh and walking around with giant planks of wood to use them as bridges.

While I do personally disagree that Grand Theft Auto V shouldn't be the Game of the Year for 2013, I can certainly understand and see as to why it's been dubbed as such here at GR. GTAV is a massive technical achievement, there was so much thrown into the game, the dialog was well written and well performed and you know what? GTAV is actually a pretty fun game, well to me it is anyway. I really enjoyed it and it's among my top five games of 2013.
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Bretimus_v2
The Japazillian Dynasty


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lien wrote:
1X +2X = 3
1 + 2 = 3
Therefore X=0


If we're all bringing up the falsehood of statements in this thread...Lien, I love you, but...

1X + 2X = 3 (add them)
3X = 3 (divide them by 3)
X = 1

Wink
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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bretimus_v2 wrote:
Lien wrote:
1X +2X = 3
1 + 2 = 3
Therefore X=0


If we're all bringing up the falsehood of statements in this thread...Lien, I love you, but...

1X + 2X = 3 (add them)
3X = 3 (divide them by 3)
X = 1

Wink


You... haven't... seen... the last... of meeee....
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WickedLiquid
In Limbo


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Math????




Mmmmk time to send this to the archive. Good job Used!!!


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Bretimus_v2
The Japazillian Dynasty


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh. I'm Asian.
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