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I had planned to write something about the Borderlands series, but that will have to wait. I have something I need to get off my chest first. It's very personal, and I hope the two or three of you who follow my sparse blog will spare me this moment. I joked in my review for the bizarre...

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Is it safe here? or How I Caged My Very Own Nicolas
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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3720

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you forgot the part that none of the thing accused in the controversy (not talking about quinn's personal life) has yet to be proven. There is no article or reviews regarding Depression quest involving any of the people mentioned nor is there have a link they conspired together to force an agenda. There is nothing but false accusations on that part.

In short Longo, apologize for WHAT? That's what i am talking about! The only people who takes this conspiracy seriously are either people who got an bias agenda against Kotaku or Madster. Quinn isn't the "link" if there wasn't anything to connect with in the first place!

Again... why are we talking about this and not about say... How Tim Chafer is making trolls cry?

Longo_2_guns wrote:
Also whatever Lien stands for is usually wrong. So that helps keep my conscience clear.

Longo speaks the truth.
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UrbanMasque
Don't Feed Him


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longo_2_guns wrote:
Quinn is hardly the biggest problem, but she's the common link between this whole thing so she's the one who will take it the hardest



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Lien
Die Hard Commie Bastard


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrbanMasque wrote:


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Master_Craig
i liek to draw pictures


Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 1698

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrbanMasque wrote:
Holy shnickeys... I did not see this post by Nick Tan!

http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/zoe-quinn-between-anger-and-depression-quest-27793

late to the party... as usual


Haha Urban, I'm surprised you didn't see Nick's article on the front page about all of this but fair enough, no worries. Smile Jessica also wrote a piece on Depression Quest, if you haven't seen that already.

I've yet to play Depression Quest. Since it's free, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. I am intrigued but in saying that I've heard terrible things... that being said, I'm unsure if that's because it's either A - a genuinely bad product or B - being negatively reviewed on purpose because of all this controversy. I think I'll have to have a look and decide for myself. It's free after all so it can't hurt.

This thread is certainly a lot friendlier than the front page comments in both of those articles. People got quite nasty there. The whole topic really did touch some nerves on both sides of the argument.

I've watched that "Quinnspiracy" video on YouTube and I've read a lot of the text, information and screen shots thrown up on Imgur, I've read a lot of the comments on the front page and now I'm reading this thread. This whole fisaco is one gigantic shit storm. The whole is becoming a "he said, she said" argument, with screen shots of "evidence" flying left to right.

I'm probably going to sound like a hypocrite here myself but regarding the screen shots of evidence... To tell you all the truth, I mostly feel very sorry for the "Wizardchan" community. Admittingly, I've never heard of them until this whole fiasco, to be fair though I've never heard of Zoe Quinn or the other people involved until these issues started popping up on the Internet most recently.

Sure, it's entirely possible that maybe a couple of the Wizardchan people did the wrong thing and tried to harass this Zoe Quinn game developer, but from what I've read on the imgur links, these Wizardchan people don't seem like very happy people. They seem like intelligent people, claiming to be suffering from depression, anxiety and other social issues and they seem very upset and offended that everyone defending Zoe is giving all of them a hard time, when they apparently haven't done anything.

One of them posted something like "Doesn't do anything. Gets bullied. It's just like high school all over again" or something along those lines.

It's ironic in a way because a lot of people are defending Zoe Quinn against these cyber bullies, which is fair enough, that's their decision, opinion and there are some horrible people targeting her. However, there's also some pretty damn horrible people on Zoe's side who are attacking the innocent folk of Wizardchan, calling them "gutless virgins", "wimps" and so forth. So while a few of Wizardchan might have been horrible and may have done the things they're accused of, the entire community is further suffering for it and are in response, being bullied and harassed. These people (Wizardchan) also claim to be suffering from mental illnesses of their own (depression, anxiety etc).

The people of Wizardchan are claiming innocence but are being bullied for something they apparently haven't done, and they claim no one is listening to their side of the story.

I guess the reason I feel so strongly for the Wizardchan folk is because as one of them said, "It's just like high school all over again", that's a quote I can very much relate to.

I think this whole situation is completely out of control and is on a mad, downward spiral. Both sides of the argument are stepping over the line and there are a lot of zealous people on both sides. I just can't believe how this situation has gotten so out of hand.

I hope my "tl;dr" post hasn't upset or offended anyone. This is just my opinion on the matter as of late.
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Last edited by Master_Craig on Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Longo_2_guns
Ruler of the Queen's Navy


Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lien wrote:
In short Longo, apologize for WHAT?

Banging your boss behind your boyfriend's back is a pretty big deal. She even admitted it when she told his ex-girlfriend on twitter "I didn't know you guys were together then."
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UrbanMasque
Don't Feed Him


Joined: 16 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No,.. that just about sums it up Craig. Appreciate the input. One of the calmer statements on this topic. I think her exploits are overshadowing the incestuous relationships of gaming and advertising or.. errrmm.. reviewing. But I like Nick Tan's assertion that GR's opinions are not for sale! and to that I offer a hearty Harumph!



Wizardchan def. seems like the overlooked victim in this incident. I didn't know any of these people before this incident, but I WILLLLL be monitoring their movements moving forward. Still haven't played depression quest, but I played Oppression Quest and found it extremely entertaining.. I doubt Depression Quest will live up to the hype.
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Commiebot



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On some level people acknowledge collusion with AAA devs through connections and ad revenue. The Quinn debacle shows us how more corrupt the indie devs scene is, not just for money and personal ties but also a running narrative to be pushed. The ferocity of people talking about this is in no small part from the frustration many gamers feel that their hobby is being co-opted by con-men and women.

The frightening thing is these folks come together to silence debate, or label anyone who disagrees as being some manner of '-ist' or '-phobe', then celebrate censorship because they've silenced the '-ists' and '-phobes'. The doublethink in games journalism and what I've seen on Twitter is boggling, and talking with the indie devs who are shut out because they don't drink the kool-aid is depressing as hell.

Speaking of, I did trudge through Depression Quest. As someone who was deeply depressed for years, it was an insultingly amateur take on the condition.
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Master_Craig
i liek to draw pictures


Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commiebot wrote:
Speaking of, I did trudge through Depression Quest. As someone who was deeply depressed for years, it was an insultingly amateur take on the condition.


It's kinda disappointing to hear that, but that's fair enough Commiebot. I'll still probably give Depression Quest a go to have a look, but I'm taking your word on board.

That's why I'm intrigued by it, because I suffered from depression for about five years. So I want to know how this game handles it.
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WickedLiquid
In Limbo


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lien wrote:
UrbanMasque wrote:




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Green_Lantern
Spacecataz


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got to where they mentioned /r/gaming in the video and then closed it.

Nope, not worth my time.
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UrbanMasque
Don't Feed Him


Joined: 16 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commiebot wrote:
On some level people acknowledge collusion with AAA devs through connections and ad revenue. The Quinn debacle shows us how more corrupt the indie devs scene is, not just for money and personal ties but also a running narrative to be pushed. The ferocity of people talking about this is in no small part from the frustration many gamers feel that their hobby is being co-opted by con-men and women..


Some times you can't find the words to express your feelings on certain issues, and then someone comes along and lays it out exactly as you WOULD have. This is that comment. Kudos.

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Shaft wrote:
I let her come up with the safe word...thats about it

De-Ting wrote:
One-on-one brings out the true nazi in people.

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Last edited by UrbanMasque on Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WickedLiquid
In Limbo


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrbanMasque wrote:
Commiebot wrote:
On some level people acknowledge collusion with AAA devs through connections and ad revenue. The Quinn debacle shows us how more corrupt the indie devs scene is, not just for money and personal ties but also a running narrative to be pushed. The ferocity of people talking about this is in no small part from the frustration many gamers feel that their hobby is being co-opted by con-men and women..


Some times you can't find the words to express your feelings on certain issues, and then someone comes along and lays it out exactly as you WOULD have. This is that comment. Kudos.


Fixed


Hahaha, oops never mind.
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C_nate



Joined: 19 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to see why the story became so talked about. It has all the hallmarks of a classic scandal. Nepotism/cronyism, corruption, sex, betrayal, and heartbreak.

It's just human nature that people have a morbid curiosity and interest in disasters. Physical, mental, emotional, amateur, professional, don't matter. people will stop and stare and want to know all the gory details.

This is all before you even get into people with their own interests and agendas getting involved to muddy things up even more.

There are a couple of aspects to the story I find interesting. As commiebot said,I think if the story had been, "Indie game dev hands out some envelopes of cash to get her game made and favorably reviewed", it would have garnered some press, for sure, but it would have probably dropped off the radar the very next day. Because a lot of people already suspect that this is how things already work in the mainstream gaming world, so why would it be any different at the indie level? It was all the salacious talk of sex, cheating, and improper relationships that caused this story to catch fire.

What really makes things complicated is when the agenda thing gets involved. As has been said plenty of times already, there has been a strong feminism movement in games over the last few years. So when something like this happens that looks bad for the movement, people go into damage control mode and stories start to spin.

But the simple fact is that among men and woman, there are some that are just bad people. Women are just as capable as men at doing shitty things to people. Is it sexist or misogynistic to call out females who do bad things? And they (bad people. men and women) need to be exposed and discredited and called out on it before they do more harm. And make no mistake, this woman is a bad person. Because of the cheating? Well, that shows that she is morally bankrupt, sure, but what really makes her a bad person is if it is true she used her influence to shut down a group of females trying to promote and get a game made by a female. That story would have not gotten anywhere near the attention it needed if not for all this other mess surrounding it.

Regardless of what side you fall on, this situation just further reinforces the belief that the gaming industry and gaming media is corrupt, which is really surprising to pretty much no one at this point.
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Rakon
Tastes like burning


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came here to find out about the Zoe Quinn controversy, but now all I care about are Nic Cage gifs



Blow on your screen when you look at that
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LinksOcarina
The Anti-Fanboy


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

man, this is all a bunch of BS.

If only there was a way we can be adults and maybe investigate this properly to uncover the truth, instead of relying on trolls fucking with people and developers and journalists doing things that are shitty.
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Longo_2_guns
Ruler of the Queen's Navy


Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LinksOcarina wrote:
man, this is all a bunch of BS.

If only there was a way we can be adults and maybe investigate this properly to uncover the truth, instead of relying on trolls fucking with people and developers and journalists doing things that are shitty.

Forget it, Links. It's video games.

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StudioTan



Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Have you ever heard the expression, "Let sleeping dogs lie"? Sometimes you're better off not knowing."
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LinksOcarina
The Anti-Fanboy


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see, I want to know.

But I want to know out of truth. I can care less about personal life, but once it crosses over to professional life, then it becomes something of a problem for me. That shouldn't be affected...
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WickedLiquid
In Limbo


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But sometimes it's better not to know. Like Paris Hilton's sex tape.
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COMaestro



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came to the thread out of curiosity. I stayed for the gifs.

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